install tongue-and-groove pine ceiling
I am looking to install a tongue-and-groove pine ceiling. The board width is about 5-1/2 once the boards are inserted and put together. My question is in how you mount the boards to the ceiling. Do you use a nail gun and tack the boards down in the groove area? Do you use glue in addition to nailing the boards? This is a vaulted ceiling. Thanks Using a nail gun would make the job a lot easier. Nailing at an angle thru the tongue will hide the nails although face nailing holds a little better. I like to use a combination of the two. Of course the face nails need to be puttied during the finishing process. I did my basment in T and G Aspen. Installed it vertical in 8' pieces. Here is my 2 cents. 1. For sure use a nail gun. $200.00 I bought a Porter and Cable combo kit. I used a 1.25 nail. Using a hammer and nail plus a nail set will be difficult because you want to nail through the tongue. If you don't care about the appearence and you want to nail through the face, you could use a hammer and nail but even at that a nail gun would work better. Mine had been up for over one year now and all looks to be secure by nailing through the tongue. 2. For sure nail though the tongue. It takes a little pracice but you will soon learn the correct angle to shoot the nail. I suggest practice on some scrap pieces. You can adjust the depth of the nail. There will be times when you miss. If this happens keep a small pair if wire cuters handy to cut the nail head off the joist/stud and just simply try again. 3. You will need to nail the T and G perpendicular to the joist or studs. In my case doing vertical walls I had to put nailers in between my 2 x 4 wall studs to nail my 5.5 boards too. 4. If installing long sections (in this case more than an 8' vertical piece) you can butt 2 ends together. It is not necessaey for the 2 ends to on a nailer. The ends can butt together in between the joists of studs. The board you hang nest keeps the 2 butt ends together. Looks best to not have repeats that are more than 24 together. 5. Using straight lumber is the best. If you were like me I was looking for a more rustic look with knots etc. Some of my boards were not straight therefore it took some work to nail up straight. A friend of mine bought a tool that has the groove cut on one end. This tool, and I am not sure what it is called, acts like a crow bar to help straighten out curved or bowed boards. It was like $30.00. This tool works good if you are putting long sections perpendicular to our main nailers. So in your case I would think this would be a good tool. My friend bought on Amazon.com. 6. I'd plan to leave an expansion area of at least 1/4 around the outside area. You can make trim out of the existing material to cover. These are some suggestion I have. I had a ball installing mine. Any question let me know. Another thing to consider is measuring the area to be covered. You will want to make sure your runs end as straight as they started, so you may have to cheat a 1/16 or so per board to make it end properly. Keep an eye on the distance as you go so you will know how much to adjust. This makes it look alot better than having your last piece ripped at a 3/4 to zero. If, on the other hand, your room is perfectly square (yeah right), keep the boards tight. JAM3000.. I'm planning the same thing for my vaulted ceiling. I must admit that it surprises me that you can end a board between joists. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I've never done it. It would certainly make it a little easier. It is very important to acclimate the wood for several days in the room where it is to be installed. It needs to adjust to temperature and humidity of the room in order to avoid expansion and contraction issues. Ending the tG over a void may not be the best thing to do, especially if there are differences in humidity. That is not to say it can't be done. I just have an aversion to allowing a finish product do its own support, when it isn't made to support itself. If installing over a finished ceiling, I believe firring strips are recommended. Originally Posted by neodave JAM3000.. I'm planning the same thing for my vaulted ceiling. I must admit that it surprises me that you can end a board between joists. Not saying you are wrong by any means. I've never done it. It would certainly make it a little easier. Try a section and test the strength. If nailed down good it will stay. The strength of the T and G is what keeps them together. And yes it is easier. It sounds like people mostly butt joint the 1x6 boards. I'm wondering if anyone mitres their joints and if yes, what do you do and is there a recommended method. I was talking to some friends and the story I got was that the 'proper' way to do the install was to mitre both boards at 45 degrees, but on the top board to counter mitre a small notch to match the V-groove on the board edges. This notch allows for expansion/contraction without leaving a 'void', but I think the v-groove mitred joint would draw attention to the joint. What are your thoughts about a mitred 'V-groove' joint? The V-groove may be better than a butt joint that separates and leaves an 1/8 (or larger) gap. Any comments on mitred joints? If you allow the wood to acclimate to your atmosphere in the house (heat and cool), the shrinking will be minimal. Cutting the v groove idea is good, but alot of work that really won't be necessary. If you miter the ends of the wood, you should have an acceptable joint. Remeber, you will have the tongue and groove along the length holding them stable as you go. Thanks Chandler. I have about 20% of the pine inside for the last 3 months. I plan to install this material in the next 2 weeks and then bring another 20-30% in and let it acclimatize for a month or so before installing. I've been doing some internet searches and Bob Villa has a video clip that is recommending a scarf joint (mitre both boards at 'an angle') --he didn't indicate the angle, but I captured a frame from the video clip and calculated a 15-20 degree cut. Another source was recommending a 30 degree scarf joint. Other sources I talked to recommended not to exceed 30 degrees as if the joint opens then you will get a proportionally larger gap. Hi all; I've recently converted my ranch house flat ceiling to a cathedral. The new joists are insulated, lighting and vapor barrier done. I want to do TG on the ceiling, but I'm concerned about variances in the height of the boards, since the new 2X10 joists aren't all level because of the variances, (less than 1/4 inch) in height of nthe old joists that they're married against. So my question, would it be better to put up a sheet product first, like 1/4 inch plywood before putting up the tG? I know a lot of times people put luaun down over old flooring for rigidity before putting in a new floor... is the same concept valid for a ceiling? Thanks for any help, Z. I would check to see if any joists are way out (either +/-) and adjust these as necessary. I would think a laser level would work good for doing this...or the old standby chalk line. When I did my ceiling I put 3/32 foam underlay between the pine and the joists. This helps with slight uneveness and also a bit of a sound insulation barrier separating the pine and the joist. You can run into the same problem on walls where one or more studs warp. If all of the crowns were done the same way you shouldn't have one jump out a whole bunch (famous last words), but if one is warped the opposite direction (gap) you may want to double stud it to try to straighten it or possibly don't nail to this stud. You can plane down the high spots and shim the low spots to achieve a flat plane for the ceiling plank installation. Leave 3/4 expansion gap. Approach hardwood installation on ceiling as you would a floor. Acclimate wood in room for several days prior to installation in order to adjust to temperature and humidity. Do your cuts outdoors to keep down dust and debris. Thanks for the info, cracks and twelvepole. Now for theTG groove material itself. All I've seen at the local big box store is 3.5 wide by 7/16 thick TG boards in cedar or pine. Anybody know of any sources where I can get 5.5 wide boards, myabe with oak as a choice as well? Thanks for the help, Z. You should be able to get 1x6 TG pine at any lumber yard [including big box]. Oak might be harder to find. You could ask at a real lumber yard [not big box] and they should know what's either available thru them or know if there is another outlet in the area that would have what you are looking for. I haven't seen TG 1x6 oak. If you are set on oak (and have the budget for oak) you might need to make your own from rough or planed boards. ALternatively, you might want to look at oak flooring. Most of the oak flooring is pretty random length though, so if you're OK with the look of the flooring then your other issue will be installing a backing (1/2 plywood?) to hold it in place. Oak will be a more volatile type of installation on a ceiling, as it will absorb moisture, and not let it go as readily as pine will. It will be horribly expensive, and a virtual bear to install. IMO, you would be better served with the 1x6 in pine. Good luck with the installation, and let us know if we can help. New to the forum but not that inexperienced. I am going to install approximately 1300 sq ft of 1X6 V-groove TG and in reading the previous post no one mentioned the measurments to have the final(ridge) board fall within a boards width. I was planning to begin by measuring from the ridge down to the beginning course at both ends of the room. The actual visible is 5-1/4 coverage so that would be figured into the set up. Right?. My situation is not typical as I am working with two old hand hewed log cabins and the framing is not really typical in it's adaptation. I am not sure if this forum is like others and photographs can be added but I will attempt at a subsequent post. Thanks Welcome to the forums! Yeah, pictures are invaluable. You can post them to a site such as photobucket.com and copy/paste the HTML code in your reply post. It is always good to have at least more than half a board at the ridge, and back measuring is a good way to attempt to accomplishing that. Let's see some pix. Chandler my installation is somewhat unusual in the fact that by TG will not begin at a verticle wall. Instead it will start on an inside soffit. Sounds strange doesn't it. To give you a little idea of what I am going to do when I erected the two individual cabins I designed it in dogtrot fashion and framed between the two cabins for the entry way. The back there was a Board Batten addition. So the two cabins had a difference in elevation of 5-1/2 in eight top corners. To remedy this I sandwiched 2X8's on either side of the top logs to adjust the elevation. I then capped that with a 2X12. That gave me a level plate to set the raters. The TG will run down the rafters to a point past the side mounted plates. Then I will face that plate with TG to meet the ceiling TG cutting the top to 40 deg to match the 10/12 slope. Thats where I came up to measure down from the ridge to a location that worked out inside that soffit. I think it is a plan that will work. A little background is that I have done about 85% myself with the exception of setting the logs, rafters and block foundation over a 2-1/2 year period. The photographs are all in a photobucket file starting with the foundation to date. Of course they are in reverse order. I will try to attach the bookmark of the PB site. Does this forum have automatic notification of replys? If I do this correct this will show the sandwiched beam in the loft area. If not it is on Page 1 of PB site. http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/d...rfarm/hightop/ Hope you enjoy John Well I started on the ceiling TG. Not real satisfied with the progress thusfar. But I guess I am going in the right direction it is just the rooms are not square and some of the logs are bowed. Since I used the 2X8's sandwiched on the logs then this error will show up again. And it has to the ceiling. I measured from the middle of the ridge at both ends of the room and figured the coverage of the boards. It came out to 23 courses. I guess I would have had to live with it not being parallel at one location or the other. Either at the ceiling or against the wall. I chose the wall. Did I tell you that in an old antique log cabin that nothing is square or plumb. Well it's not. Any suggestions? No Intrest I guess. I can't believe that there is not someone that wants to tell you what to do. nice pics. the cabin looks great, are you done with it?? sam-mac-jr thanks for your intrest. I made it over this little obsticle by common sense I guess. Have moved onto bigger and better things.. I laid the first log on Aug 23, 2006 and it has been a learning process to date (3 years and counting). I am in the finishing stage right now with the install of the cabinets, tiling of the countertops. Still remaining is the construction of the log stairway to the loft, working out the electrical ( off grid) and the septic. I continue to update the photobucket site as I progress with the different stages. Thanks again John I advise nailing thrrough the tongue as well. Start with ripping the groove off the starter board, try to rip the angle of the roof / wall intersection for a tight fit. The board should have fave nails at the wall edge and be nailed in the tongue on the other edge. Continue in this fashion until you get to a board or two of the ridge and then do the otherside. sometimes you can rout a ridge board to accept two tongues or just overlap the ridge board with an angle on both edges. this board is facenailed. You can take the time to make the end wall - butt ends tight or install a perimeter molding or ground [1x1 piece]. If you used this method you can face nail anything hidden from the molding / ground. At the end of the project you should have very few face nails showing. Good luck. rrobillard that is basicly what I did starting off. Since I started up under the indoor soffit it didn't matter about the face nails as it was covered later. I was not to far off at the ridge. I beveled a piece of TG on both sides and it covered the variation. Here is a picture of the ceiling in the L.Room The biggest problem that I had was that I had intersections which met the livingroom from the two loft rooms and they hit at the valleys. Real PIA but by measuring not twice but several times and using a laser level I came real close to keep both rooms climbing at the same rate(level). You can see some of what I was talking about in this picture. A real find was the mantle. It was poplar wall log that I cut down and finished. I counted the growth rings(close together) and the age when it was cut was 165 years. Then add that it has been laying around and used as a wall log for 80-100 years. So in essence it is about 245-265 years old. Lot of interesting things have occured during the build. When I installed a wall of TG it depicted a outline of a bear head. I told my wife I planned it like that and she said Right. Off to work on it some more after and PU some plumbing parts. Want to do the master bedroom, but having a hard time finding TG material in yellow pine (preferably prefinished). Any suggestions? It the Atlanta area. Bud Bud, Yellow pine is hard to find in this area. Most TG are white pine. But you being in the south should be able to locate it. I guess you have checked with the local HD Lowes. You might have to contact a regular building supply to have them order it for you. I have a friend that was going to order exactly what you are referring to. He is from the Charlotte area. I am sure he probably just googled it and found dealers. I can try to contact him and see if he has the company that he was talking to and let you know. If you have an E-mail address I can forward it to you. Mine is ********* Here is my latest endevor Chinadog, no advertising intended, as I don't deal with them, but since you are in ATL, you may check with U.S.Lumber Group - Distributor of building materials/ Branch Locations/ Atlanta branch, as they have yellow pine grooved tg in 1x6. Yellow pine, however, will tend to curve and split with you much more than the fir commonly sold. You can give the fir a yellow pine type stain and finish if you wish. Thanks guys, any information is appreciated. Chandler, I have a cabin up in Blue Ridge that had an addition put on about 5-6 years ago (before I bought it) and they drywalled everything in the room, including the ceiling. I'm having hardwood floor put in next month, but a TG ceiling would really big a huge improvement. The rest of the house (about 16 years old) is all yellow pine that has aged over time. I'm good with something even prefinished if it's close, although the bedroom is far from any other finished wood in the other part of the house. Here is a couple of shots: Bedroom that I want to do the ceiling in, notice the beams. And what the rest of the cabin looks like from a wood and color perspective: My objective is to tie it together as much as possible. And the view from the side deck: Bud Originally Posted by Redoverfarm If you have an E-mail address I can forward it to you. Here is my latest endevor: Reoverfarm, Nice place! Looks like you've got your work cut out for you. Should be great when it's done. Keep us posted on your progress. Will PM you my email. Bud Looks as if the tg will make the room look super. I believe you will be able to get a really good result without all the hassle of yellow pine if you use the fir or soft pine commonly available, and it will blend in really well. I have worked on a few houses, particularly in the Dreamcatcher area of Blue Ridge that had the beams and tg. Good luck with the project! chinadog just wondering if you ever received my PM regarding the sites. I would imagine you are probably on the lower end of the Blue Ridge. I once lived on the upper end at Harpers Ferry. I had mentioned the TG wall before with the image of the bears head. I thought I would post it. Unlike the ceiling in your great/living room that will be a challange to put TG up in between the ceiling rafters. Measure twice or maybe three times and cut. I did get your reply and I replied as well. Thanks. There are definitely some tricky parts to do in the room, but otherwise it shouldn't be too back. I'll use construction adhesive and 2 brads. Just need to find the rafters. I'm not sure furring strips will by me much. Scaffolding may be required. Not sure how high the ceiling is in the corner, but doubting I can get that high with a 12' ladder. Bud Bud I think for ease of movement and mobility I would try to find two complete section of scaffolding (1-wheeled and one plain) and walkboard platforms. It is so much easier if you can work on one section then wheel under another one and so on and so on. I had two ceiling beams (wall ties) that I couldn't just roll mine from one end to the other and had to work in sections. Pain. The rafters should be on a OC demension as 16 or 24. Once you find them a 4' level and pencil mark from eve to ridge will give you an idea of nailing the TG. BTW the only PM I got was your E-Mail address.
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